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Balance is the important concepot isn your contribution Linda. Your comments remined me of the excellent article about “thumos” which can be found on this website (published on the 23rd of June 2014). The most pertinent extract from that article for me is below
“… Plato compares the human soul to a chariot that is being pulled by one white horse and one black horse, with a skilled charioteer at the reigns.
“First the charioteer of the human soul drives a pair, and secondly one of the horses is noble and of noble breed, but the other quite the opposite in breed and character. Therefore in our case the driving is necessarily difficult and troublesome.”-Plato (Phaedrus)
Plato
The black horse is said to represent men’s appetites. The white horse is said to represent the thumos of a soul. And the charioteer is reason, which holds both horses steady and will not allow either to run wild. If all is well, the white horse and the black horse will propel the soul forward while reason will ensure that neither steed ever runs toward destruction.”“Does Achilles’ abstinence from the fighting make him a traitor?” Socrates, I think your question raises an important question relevant even today. If we pose the question in this way: Can someone defy the law and be a hero? Linda’s point that a patriot is someone who loves their country would be generally accepted as being accurate. I also agree with you Linda that wealth, charm, and lineage are mporatnt determinants in forming people’s opinions. They are also merely superficial factors which do not address the root question. It seems to me that the real question is: Under what circumstances is it acceptable to defy the law? So, can we regard Achilles, and anyone else who has the temerity to defy social conventions, or the law, as being heroes. My opinion is that we can, if the issues raised are of great moral concern to society. Please feel free to challenge my opinion!
I have just come across this quote attributed to Lionel Trilling: “What gods were to the ancients at war, ideas are to us”.
Anyone care to comment?
Hello George and ClassicsFan,
I am here too. I am particularly interested in comparing Greek/Roman philosophy to the philosophy of Ancient China.
I fould it fascinationg to compare the wrting of the Chinese philosopher Xunzi to Plato’s Republic. Remarkable similarities between the two.
It is also interesting to compare <encius to Aristotle. They both believed that it is our duty to devote our lives to continually learning and developing as people.
It is gratifying to see this website helping people achieve this worthwhile aim!
It is not at all shallow to suggest that the Gods add passion to the story. I agree completely.
The Gods will intervene in the actions of mortals todetermone what happens (“Ajax knew the hand of heaven in this…” see page 20 of the PDF). Is this Homer’s representaion of how chance and circumstances combine to influencethe course of our lives?
I am also interested trying to identify if there is a commone theme to the way the Gods respond to the pleas of mortals. The Gods appear to be judgemental in what they grant such pleas (“Part of it he did indeed vouch-safe him – but not the whole…” see page 23 of the PDF). What I am unsure of is how the Gods decide how they will respond to the pleas and sacrifices pf mortals. In other words what reasoning do the gods use? Additionally, what evidence do they require to grat a plae?. Is there a discreet message in the text which answers my uncertainty? It will also be interesting to identify any themes in regards to the response of the mortals to the actions of the Gods. Perhaps this would give us ideas about hwo we should live of lives in the modern world!
An ancient Chinese philosopher, known in the west as Mencius, differentiated between fate and destiny. He believed the Gods determined the length of our lives and our potential achievements. He wrote that our innate knowledge should be our guide. However, our fate is on our own hands according to the decisons we make. For example, if a person risks his life by standing beside a “tottering wall” the Gods will be unable to help.
Albert Bandura’s “Social learning theory” states that people learn from the social envirnoment they live in. This suggests that we should consder how the Oedipus’ social environment influenced his decisions in life. Bandura suggests that personality is an interaction between: the social environment; behaviour; and, one’s personality. This raises two questions in my mind. Firstly, to what extent are we now trying to judge the actions of Oedipus in the context of the social envirnoment we now live in? Secondly, dowe we also need to consider how are own actions are influenced by our social environment, and vice versa.
